Collaboration is key to healthy public radio - Part 2

An interview series with station leaders

Part 2: Nathalie Hill, Chief Audience Officer, KCRW

(Miss part 1? Read it here.)

…  the spirit of cooperation and collaboration … exists in public radio. Imagine 24 or so commercial stations (owned by different companies) pooling their research in an effort to make a greater contribution to their medium, not worried about any issues that might arise from sharing proprietary data with others … it could only happen in public radio. (Fred Jacobs)

This may be an obvious point, but it bears repeating: the world should be really thankful for public media. Setting aside the equally-essential national version for a second, local public radio, in its relative freedom to program without being beholden to larger corporate or commercial interests, maintain ties to local communities, and more, is a unique gift to listeners. 

Personally, I appreciate that gift constantly. Sure, almost anything is available on-demand now. But there’s something different about, say, driving in your car and having some gem of a song (that would never get airplay on modern commercial radio) just come on, almost magically. In my world, when a track from Aimee Mann’s brilliant, first solo record suddenly plays, I'm undoubtedly listening to WFUV. Or when Bill Evans’ “Minority” is suddenly and perfectly soundtracking a walk around the city, that’s definitely compliments of WBGO. 

But, just as obviously, that same independence that gives local public radio its magic also presents challenges. More competition for the world’s attention than ever (from the biggest digital audio services, streaming TV… not to mention big commercial radio), less institutional support for small stations, and more, have all fed a general decline in local radio listening since 2018 (source). 

Some of the challenges are equally about the way local stations operate – sometimes almost too independently. There is a scrappy, “go it alone” spirit that’s admirable and powerful. But, as Billy Bragg exclaimed in “There is Power in a Union'' (though he was talking about a literal union), collaboration can be even more powerful. Stations working together is fundamental to the future growth of public radio.

We asked some public radio leaders to weigh in on this and more. Next up, KCRW Chief Audience Officer Nathalie Hill.

SK: What's most surprising about what you’re seeing in public radio right now?

Nathalie Hill (KCRW):  There’s not nearly enough discussion around AI and how it’s drastically changing audience behavior. Legacy media institutions are getting absolutely rocked by how quick the shift is happening. The answer isn’t just “pivot to TikTok” or spend more marketing money (although both are good ways to reach audiences who don’t even know we exist, which is also surprisingly a LOT of people). We should be talking about the importance of brand distinction and POV and staying nimble in our distribution.    

SK: What are some ways you’re bridging the awareness gap?

NH: We’re meeting people where they are (digitally and IRL). We’re gaining a better understanding of how digital platforms and their algorithms work to get the most reach and engagement possible organically. We have 800K followers across our social channels. We had 108K people RSVP to our Summer Nights events series across Greater LA this year. But we can’t continue growing unless we make a point to stay distinctive. It’s not enough to get in front of people. Every engagement is an opportunity to say “choose us.” If we aren’t something they opt into, we’re just more noise. So we’re having more fun and staying true to our shared curiosities around music, culture, and understanding the world. It’s always a little unexpected but it’s exactly what hits the spot. It’s in everything we do, from our marketing to our events to our programming and curation. Brand awareness is cumulative.  

SK: What's an example of collective action that can help public stations?

NH: More cross-sharing of inspiration outside of public media. There are some amazing things individual content creators or entrepreneurial media start ups are doing that we could be learning from. And then we can discuss with each other how that could apply to us. How are others creating community? Or treating membership?

SK: How much are you using data to help in your decision making?

NH: A lot. We set up goals upfront and learn. We have so much more data available to us (compared to just relying on Nielsen) so we can see exactly what’s working and what’s not and quickly iterate. And if we don’t reach our goal? Learn and move on. With more data available, it’s important to get alignment on what data is important for driving decisions. Does time spent matter? Or reach? Or engagement? It’s different on each platform and our teams need to understand this. 

Data, however, does not inform our curation. The magic of what we do is serving up what people didn’t know they wanted – like a perfect new song on a morning drive through traffic. We have to trust the expertise of our talent (DJs, hosts, producers). But data can help make sure we’re improving how we’re engaging with the audience and allowing ourselves to be discovered.

SK: Is that a common perception among local stations? 

NH: At the end of the day we all want to create a greater impact for our audience. Getting direct, real-time feedback from our audience is crucial and our teams have been excited to get their hands on more data. Why make something if nobody wants to engage with it?  

SK: Can a collaborative approach help here?

NH: There’s a reason why Amazon and Google are so powerful. They have massive amounts of data to make the user experience more personalized and streamlined. They know what you want. The more data we have, the better the experience is for the audience. If we could cross-share with other public media organizations (in an ethical way of course) we would all be much better informed.  

SK: Funding is obviously a major issue in public media. Is there a collective strategy that helps ensure stations are consistently generating enough revenue five years from now?

NH: I think there’s a whole generation of people who don’t understand what public radio is, how it’s funded, or that it’s even nonprofit. There could be a collective effort around educating younger audiences around why we exist in the first place and why it’s worth supporting. We also need to make it easier to support us. Can we make donating frictionless? I think about how Substack was able to get your credit card and now you can easily subscribe to any paid newsletter without even thinking. Is something like this possible for us across stations? 

Additionally, we have to be open to other revenue streams outside of radio underwriting. It would be great to share knowledge around digital content and event sponsorships, licensing opps, etc. 

Part 3 of this series, a chat with KUT/KUTX Technology Director Todd Callahan, is coming soon.